.jpg)
Eric's Podcast
Welcome to Eric's Podcast – a journey through faith, life, and the lessons that shape us. Join Eric as he shares personal stories, reflections, shares insights that inspire hope and encourages. Whether you're navigating life's challenges or seeking motivation this podcast offers a blend of authenticity, inspiration, and thought-provoking conversations.
New episodes drop every week! Don't forget to like, subscribe, and hit the notification bell to stay connected on this journey of faith and discovery. Let’s walk this path together.
Eric's Podcast
S2 #12 Navigating the Family Learning Journey: Homeschool Wisdom from Lindsay Norrell
When Lindsay Norrell began homeschooling her first child nearly two decades ago, she never imagined it would become a lifelong educational journey spanning six children. What started as a practical solution during a family move evolved into a rich, customized approach to learning that has allowed her children to develop not just academically, but as confident, connected individuals with strong familial bonds.
"By the time they hit young adult, they're just really cool people," Lindsay shares about her older children. "We spend a lot of time together and hang out and play games, we talk a lot about life, and so it's like their best age, I think. And then they leave, which is very sad. But the good part is my kids are all very close as siblings."
This episode dives deep into the practical aspects of home education that most parents wonder about – from curriculum selection and daily scheduling to managing technology and supporting different learning styles. Lindsay offers refreshingly honest insights about what works (and what doesn't), emphasizing flexibility over rigid structures and relationships over arbitrary academic benchmarks.
Particularly valuable is her discussion of social development through "mastery-oriented" activities rather than artificial social gatherings. Whether through music, sports, debate, or other pursuits, she explains how children develop meaningful connections while working toward common goals alongside peers – often forming deeper friendships than in traditional school environments.
For parents concerned about their own educational limitations, Lindsay's perspective as a "curator of educational experiences" rather than an all-knowing teacher offers liberation from unnecessary pressure. "We have these tools," she explains when discussing resources like online courses, community classes, and digital learning platforms. "Don't put all the burden on mom and dad."
Whether you're currently homeschooling, considering it as an option, or simply curious about alternative educational approaches, this conversation offers practical wisdom from someone who has successfully navigated the homeschooling journey through different ages, stages, and challenges. The result is an encouraging roadmap for creating an educational environment that develops not just knowledge, but character, relationships, and a lifelong love of learning.
Eric's Podcast.
Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome back to another episode of the Eric's Podcast. I'm your host, eric, and today I am blessed to be with Lindsay Norrell, who has been homeschooling her six kids since 2004, and she's a freelance writing. She does freelance and has a career in helping families with homeschooling, and thank you so much for joining us on City. Good to see you Good to be here. So what have you been up to this week? Anything fun, anything like exciting to announce.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we're starting gardening in Nebraska by starting little seeds inside the house, so my whole living room looks like a grow operation for little cabbages and Brussels sprouts.
Speaker 1:So that's what's going on in my world right now. You have six kids. How old are your kids?
Speaker 2:My oldest is 26, and we go all the way down to 11 years old.
Speaker 1:So I have uh four at home, right how has that, uh, been with that whole having that many kids in the house? And then I'm guessing, slowly some are, like you know, starting to do their own thing and branch out and that kind of stuff. How's? How's that transition been for you?
Speaker 2:you know it's it's lovely and it's hard at the same time. What's great is that I'm always really sad when my kids leave, because by the time they hit young adult, they're just really cool people. We spend a lot of time together and we hang out and play games, we talk a lot about life, and so it's like their best age, I think. And then they leave, which is very sad. But the good part is my kids are all very close as siblings, and so they're gaming online together and they're sending each other birthday gifts and they're checking in almost daily with one another, which is just what you dream of as a parent, right, yeah, 100%.
Speaker 1:I have a three-year-old and a one-year-old. I was homeschooled myself. I went to public school between, let's see, first grade to fourth grade, which was a very interesting experience, and then in my transitioning out of that into a homeschooling environment again, it was very different from really early on, the preschool era and that kind of thing, and then transitioning from public school back to homeschool, but it's a whole different. It's like that teenage type of environment which, at least for me, even with the co-ops and everything, I found the social element still very challenging. So how did you guys address that? I mean, and I have six siblings too, one older brother and four younger brothers and sisters, and so, yeah, we are very tight and we kind of had to lean on each other a lot, uh, just because of some family things and stuff that have that happened early on. Um, but yeah, how, how did you? And, like, how did you solve that social element that you know?
Speaker 2:yeah. So you know each child is different. Some of them just like crave that next interaction with their peers. Some are perfectly cool to just sit at home and like clubs or groups that they can be part of that are very, I guess, mastery oriented. So whether it's like learning an instrument or being in a choir, or speech and debate or athletics, something where they're continually putting inputs into something so they can see outputs, but they're doing it alongside their peers, so that way it's not just, you know, we're getting together for an hour and we're going to learn about science, and then when that lesson's over, it doesn't carry over into anything else, which is fine, and I'm nothing against co-ops.
Speaker 2:But there's something about being part of a team or being part of a group where you're kind of pushing each other to excel and get better. That, I feel like, really has some good value, especially in the team of yours. And then you'll see them texting or like maybe they'll be on a Discord chatting and they're talking about stuff happening in their lives too. So it's just kind of a really great way to build a positive peer pressure group, I guess. And, um, we have so many more options than probably when you were growing up, which also makes it a lot easier for parents to figure it out.
Speaker 1:That's very true, um, because obviously I didn't have discord or any of these other channels. And another thing too is I know my, my parents probably would not have allowed us to do Discord, like to do anything that they couldn't monitor. And I know, for me, going back to those groups and like a team thing, for me it was dance actually, I got into ballet and that was the. That was craziest, I don't. I felt like the lord told me to do it, so I did it and at the time I was 16 and, um, which is old, it's old to get into dance. That that's considered very late and, um, it's not impossible, it just is.
Speaker 1:But yeah, that really gave me going back to that team kind of building thing. That gave me a lot of confidence. I gave me. It completely transformed my entire you know that being very shy and afraid and not wanting to go and talk to people and that kind of thing. That completely opened and changed my entire outlook on everything, cause you kind of have to put yourself out there if you're going to go on stage and you know, wear these interesting outfits and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:But uh yeah, how did um, in terms of, like, homeschooling in general, how did you come around, like, how did you guys decide that you wanted to do homeschooling versus either a private school or public? Obviously, public school has a lot of stuff. I don't know I'm not up to date on what it is now, but I have heard a lot of bad things about it, like concerns and stuff around it. I know when I went, it was honestly I didn't think it was that bad as a, but I went up to fourth grade. I don't know what. I don't know what is after that and I did one with fourth grade. There was a shift in terms of the way people were interacting and the clicks that started to be forming and and then we exited. So how, how, how did you guys choose homeschooling versus a traditional route?
Speaker 2:Well, when we first started the first year, we were moving, we were in the middle of a move and I just didn't love the idea of getting our child in a school just to be there for a year and then moving. And especially in kindergarten, when I feel like I don't know year and then moving, and especially in kindergarten when I feel like I don't know, we were doing a lot of stuff at home reading books and learning letters. And so it just kind of felt like why disrupt at kind of an age where they're learning to like depend on someone else other than mom and dad? And so we just said let's homeschool for a year. And at the time it was like workbooks from the dollar store and reading and, just like you know, play based learning. And I just I saw such growth personally and emotionally and I felt like you know, I like this, maybe we'll try it another year. And then I started I was having more children and I was really enjoying my oldest kind of being involved in that and getting to see like the babies being born and what all goes on with that and it just felt like very full and very complete as far as education went and we just kind of said let's just take this year by year and then, 20 years later, we're still doing it because it still works, but it's changed.
Speaker 2:And I think that you know people that feel like they need to pull their kids out of public school for whatever reason. That's valid, whether it's bullying, or maybe the child has special needs that aren't quite being met. But you can only rely on the anti or the counter to something for so long, because when things get really hard and you're like I don't know if I can do this, I'm tired, I got work to do. You can't just go. But the bullying you have to be like this is working for us on a whole nother level and I kind of think of it more as like life engineering versus public school is bad.
Speaker 2:It's like we like to travel. We want the flexibility to sit with grandma while she's in hospice and spend those last moments with her and not have to answer to the school. My kids already missed 20 days and now they're potentially not going to graduate on time. There's just not a lot of flexibility built into the public school system and compulsory attendance is the law. So if you're not sending your child to school, you're breaking the law and that just didn't appeal to me, like I had a bigger idea of what education could be and the public school model didn't offer the opportunity in that basically.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense, I know. For us, we put our three-year-old in a private school, a farm school, where they basically do most of their schooling outside and on the outside it looks really great. It looks like because we live in an apartment and we don't have a yard, we don't have that kind of thing, and plus, he would be outside all day. You know, he would be playing with sticks and learning, like you know, one plus one with the sticks and stuff like that, which all sounds really great. It's like all the stuff that we would actually do if we had a yard and we could be outside all the time, all the time.
Speaker 1:And uh, the main issue that we found was one we both agreed that he's probably too young in terms of the environment and the kids, because he would come home with some traits and values and stuff that we completely don't agree with, like hitting and stuff like that and um or arguing with you and not being respectful, that kind of thing. And at first we thought, okay, well, we can counteract this. You know we can counteract this because it's only going two days a week and the rest of the time we can continue to instill our values and everything in him and it'll counterbalance didn't work because he's a sponge and he soaked it all in. So we finally we ended up having to pull him out and going back to our um kind of play learning, like you said, uh, routine, which has been really great. But but what occurred to us was that he is not, um, he's too much of, he's too much influenced by the things around him right now, and that he doesn't have the core values that we want in place.
Speaker 1:So when they're challenged, it just flips, because everybody wants to be accepted and you want to be accepted in the group, so you're going to do what the group's doing, and so I guess my question would be in terms of rate, how do you? Because when you're put in those environments, you're automatically challenged, right, and if you're never put in those environments, then you're not challenged in any way. So how do you? Homeschooling with the community and all of that, how do you? Obviously, you're instilling your values in your kids, but how do you know that if they're challenged, they're instilled enough and know how to counter it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is the like number one, I think, dilemma or challenge or opportunity, I guess, if you're a positive person with parenting in general. But I think it's more obvious that it's a challenge when they're home with you. You know part of it is knowing your child, knowing they're, you know. Are they more of a leader? Do they do things and everyone around them like will do it, or are they more like I'm going to hang back and wait to see and be cautious? You can kind of see that personality in them. And the other thing is just understanding that part of homeschooling, ie parenting, is giving your child plenty of safe failure opportunities where the consequences are minimal but the learning outcomes are very big, so that when they learn things they can apply them later to places where they're not.
Speaker 1:Do you have an example of one of those? Okay, sorry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so one of them is you know we talked about Discord. I have some homeschool families that I'm lovely people that probably would not let their children be on Discord or TikTok or, you know, even have cell phones are unmonitored and we have not been perfect in this, so we have had to have conversations, right, but I would rather those conversations be here at home with me. A lot of times they will come to me and they'll be like hey, I don't really know how to get a handle on this or what I'm seeing my friends do online or whatever. And I'm thinking this is not a failure, this is a win, because they're coming to me and it happened like while they're under my roof and they're safe and they're a minor and it's not something where they're going to, like you know, be dealing with getting kicked out of school or something like like nothing that bad, but it's just like we learn how to do it here now, while you're under my roof and you have my protection as a parent, or you learn it later when you don't Not.
Speaker 2:Learning is not an option. This is just the natural evolution of people growing up and having technology and having to deal with all different kinds of people.
Speaker 2:And I think taking a super protective approach where, like, you're not just going to have, you're not going to have these things because they can be bad, can only work so long Because when you kick them out of the house and they have no, clue how to you're not going to have these things because they can be bad, can only work so long, um, because when you kick them out of the house and they have no clue how to deal with it, it's like throwing a kid into the ocean with no swimming lessons and no life jacket, um, and it can be really, really bad for for children. So we're working on it and every day we kind of adjust our rules and they'll be different for different children and I like that. There are a lot of tools out there. I don't trust monitoring tools 100% because I like to share some fun little jokes that they're not bad, but they might get flagged because they say, like the word kill in them or something Like it doesn't have any nuance, right, something like it doesn't have any nuance, right.
Speaker 2:So as somebody who kind of values nuance and education, I feel like we have to be able to make situational decisions and a lot of the technology out there doesn't do that. So it is a very, very hard part of parenting, homeschooling even more of a focus. I'm excited that we have a chance to go through those things with our kids still under our care, um, and we can get them ready. It's like teaching them to drive right. You, just, little by little, you let them go Um. Technology is going to be the same.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know I was just um reading something the other day of the rise of, uh, no-transcript. Um, so how and like in your view, like how do you counteract? How do you give them freedom? You know, this also kind of goes back to like instilling the values of being able to come to you and feel comfortable coming to you, Even when something so embarrassing has happened. How do you counteract or how do you do with that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's like twofold. And actually you know, I was I just reading same story about some young man who took his life right Because someone had convinced him that his parents wouldn't love him anymore and he had to pay $5,000, you know it was just a terrible sick crime.
Speaker 2:Part of us as parents would need to really be aware. We can get really distracted with social media and looking at things and who wore what to the Oscars and what's going on in politics, and we spend a lot of time online, but I don't know that we're always seeking out the resources and seeking out the news that might actually affect our children and that's harder news to get. You have to be a little more proactive. It's not just going to show up in your feed because it's not getting the algorithm eyeballs, right.
Speaker 2:So part of that is because I work in technology and I work in education. I'm kind of getting all that news and when I see something, I'm like, okay, we need to talk to my kids about this before it happens, and so we'll be in cars and driving on the way to like a tournament or something and I'll be like, hey guys, you know, here's some, here's this thing that's happening in the news and it's really sad. And you know, I don't. I don't want you to be using technology in a way that hurts women or girls or other people, Right. I don't want you to use it in a way that could possibly get you put in jail, right. But also, if you were to mess up, we will figure it out. Like there is nothing you can do that will make me not love you Nothing, right.
Speaker 2:And I think that part of homeschooling, the thing I think that is so wonderful is they're seeing you every day mess up. There's no like, oh, I just got to get it together till my kids get to school and then I just have a mental breakdown and then get it all together before they get home. There's none of that. There is watching mom cry when grandma dies.
Speaker 2:There's watching dad stress out when he loses his job, and then us coming together as a family and going. But you know what? We have each other, we will figure it out, and I think having that kind of attitude towards everything builds your children up in a way that, honestly, I don't know if you can do it if they're in public school all day, and I think it like fortifies them and makes them stronger people so that when they do get out into that world and they're doing those not safe failures, they can, they can handle it. It's it's it's a, it's a perseverance that you can give them. Um, you're uniquely positioned to do so and I think you have a duty to as a parent, so okay.
Speaker 1:So how much do you okay Homeschooling? How much does it cost, usually Because you have six kids, Do you? You said you kind of started out going buying dollar books for free, learning and all that. How, like, how did you guys transition? Did you move to a curriculum? Did you create your own out of a bunch of different things? What was your journey there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you know our seasons change. When I was just a stay-at-home mom and didn't work outside the home at all, I had more time to like stand there and, you know, point to this chalkboard that we had in the dining room and kind of do that the way people imagine when they first think of homeschooling. Maybe the older generations kind of had done. Now, because my children have different interests and I want to like help them see how far they can take those interests. They're all going to do some different things.
Speaker 2:So, like my one child would take a live online art class from a very accomplished teacher, I have a student who's doing some college courses online dual enrollment. I have a student who really just loves books and so a lot of his learning is just him reading these books that go along with the curriculum that he's doing that are also in books. It's a combination of knowing what's worked well for other children and keeping those pieces and then also having you know some modules in there. Maybe 30% of their learning is very interest-based, with an understanding that if I have a child that wants to get into a STEM career, yes, we're going to have to do more math and science than maybe my art student who will just have to have whatever the minimum state recommendation is, and that's fine.
Speaker 1:So you don't have. Oh, yeah, sorry.
Speaker 2:Spending varies. You know that's okay Spending. You know we try to use things that can be reused from sibling to sibling, which is an advantage we have that other families might not have, and I tend to overspend just because I work full time and I need them to be able to be somewhat self-sufficient with their learning and take some kind of ownership over that. So it can be $600 to $1,000 per student per year, not including activities, which can be probably the most expensive part of it, yeah, but also activities could change.
Speaker 1:Do you have like a requirement? Because I've talked to some, I know some homeschool families and I know I've talked to some too. Um, I know some homeschool families and I know I've talked to some too where they have a requirement, where it's like okay, if you choose, if you choose. If okay, take my dance, for example. Um, if I chose dance, I would have to commit to doing it for a year, versus I can't just, oh yeah, I want to do dance and then drop out a month later and then be like, oh yeah, I want to go over here and do this and drop out again. Do you have any? Do you have? Have you had anything like that? Or have you like experimented with what works?
Speaker 2:Yeah well, I think you can't know if you truly hate it till you give it a try. And I'm someone who hated dance when I started at five or six and then I did it for 12 years and loved it Like dance was my life. So I'm glad my parents, you know, at four years old again as such a tiny little human were like you know.
Speaker 2:Try it the same way with piano drums. You know, I just was really into music and the arts For my children. I tend to try to find things that they can do together. To start, just because I am not Uber and I can't be driving, like all over right.
Speaker 2:So speech and debate have been good for us because I think public speaking is a great tool for everyone to have, and so they all have to do a year Same way with vocal I just I feel like we have this great resource in our community. A partnership with the college and their doctor of music gives these homeschool lessons very affordably and I'm like why would we not take advantage? So there are some things they all have to do for one year, but I know them kind of by being with them all day and I wouldn't put them in something that I think would be like just a really poor fit beyond those things that we have. All the kids take and, yeah, finish the year because we paid for it, and I think it sends a good message to their peers and their instructors and respect.
Speaker 2:Right, it can be a little disrespectful to have a kid show up. The teacher puts all those inputs into them and then they don't have anything to show for it when it comes time for the final performance. I think there's something to be said for finishing what you start just as a person you know not not necessarily a homeschooler, a hundred percent.
Speaker 1:I mean it not. It shows, it also adds a level of thought behind your action. That's something that I know that I would want to instill into my kids in that same way, because I don't want you to be frivolous and you know just going from here to here, and I want you to be ableivolous and you know just going from here to here, and I want you to be able to think, okay, what's the consequences of this and my time and all of that. It's very important, um, yeah. So, going back to the curriculum, I don't. Uh, did you so? Do you use a curriculum now? Or? Um, okay, what curriculum do you use? Or how did that evolve?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So a mixture, yeah. So you know, we've tried a lot of things that did not work.
Speaker 1:Everybody's story, yeah.
Speaker 2:Pretty common. Yeah, because you have the flexibility, you can sometimes be maybe all too eager to abandon something because it's not working. And that could be, you know, maybe something's not working with your child, it may not be the curriculum, but I also think we're like we have shiny object syndrome as homeschoolers, like there's just too many cool things.
Speaker 2:We I spent a few years where I was like reviewing products from homeschool companies and I was all too like excited to try this thing. And then I realized but every time I do this, I'm asking my child to like switch their brain and how they approach, and it's not fair to them, right? So I eventually stopped doing that, um, and we picked a few things that really worked well. Like we used demo learning for math, because the math, you see, works really well for my right brain and left brain learners. My child with dyslexia and dysgraphia can use it as well as my child that doesn't.
Speaker 2:So there's some staples like that where we just continually use them year after year with each of the children, continually use them year after year with each of the children, and then you know we might have to, just because of the learning differences, say, you know, this language arts program isn't working for my one child. He's going to use one curriculum and then this other child's going to use a different curriculum. But we do usually buy things from publishers or online school providers and we just kind of fit them in where they work with the child's abilities and our budget and schedule, and I can't say enough about if you're a savvy shopper and you're doing Black Friday sales and all that stuff. It's a great time to buy curriculum too. I get a lot of great deals Buy one, get one for online courses from some of the places we shop from. Wow Black Friday like coupon codes, like you can really you know, because they're fighting for your business, that's true.
Speaker 2:And the market is getting really very full and it's no longer like this is the standard homeschool book that you buy. There's thousands of options, and so these companies really have to work hard.
Speaker 1:There are so many options now, how, I mean, how do you go about picking out? How do you know it's going to be a good fit? How do you know it's going to work when there's so many out there to choose? Is there like a survey, or is there something you could take that's like this is your personality homeschool curriculum type thing, you know?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know it's funny because I have seen some sites like that that are trying to do that. I think that the interesting thing is it's kind of like if you're looking for a movie and your history says, or Netflix says, hey, you like these seven shows, You're probably going to like this movie. And then you watch it and you're like you couldn't have been any more incorrect. Some of those things can't really be quantified. So where I would start is finding other parents that share both values, because that's a big one but also learning approaches. I don't particularly care for curriculum that makes my children memorize a bunch of arbitrary things that's not connected to like a larger picture of history or a larger yeah.
Speaker 2:And yet there are some people that love that, and so when I'm seeking things out, I always say, well, what do you like about it? And if they tell me, oh, it's all the memorization, I go well, that's not going to work for my family. So, asking those kinds of questions from people that share your same values, what do you like about it, what do you not? It narrows the field down significantly. And not being afraid to get away from those legacy publishers and legacy curriculum providers because you know, and nothing against it we use a few of them, but they kind of got uncomfortable in the fact that they were first to market and so they're always going to be a top option. But as these new products kind of roll out and parents start to find things that work better, it's going to be on them to adapt and continually promote what it is that makes them unique and be updating their technology and updating their websites and making sure that they have fast shipping and discount pricing or whatever it is.
Speaker 2:Just don't let a company or curriculum publisher take your business for granted. I guess Because your child is very important and their learning is why you're doing this, and I guess just because that's always been the option doesn't mean you have to continue down that path.
Speaker 1:How do you, as a parent, when it comes to the curriculum and schooling and all of that, how do you instill that creative challenge? Because I know, at least with my siblings and myself looking back it was fun when it wasn't really challenging, but as soon as it got challenging it wasn't fun anymore and they didn't want to do it. How, as a parent, do you instill like that? You can do it, keep going, because now I love a challenge, I love a mystery, I love when I can't figure it out, and that's more enticing to me because of the accomplishment of figuring it out versus everything's easy. How do you instill that into your kids?
Speaker 2:yeah. So it's kind of the how you know, how do you get them to eat their vegetables thing, right? Um? Same same kind of approach take three bites and then you'll get you know. Or, for my family, if we have a veggie eater that's not a fan we'll go eat your veggies first, get it out of the way, right? Um, we kind of take that same approach and and I sit here and I tell you this as someone who is not as consistent as I would like to be Like I don't use planners, I don't have.
Speaker 2:Like I have this Todoist app on my phone and I throw everything in there and then I check, check, check, check, check. Like 30, 40, 50 tasks, everything from like take my vitamins to feed the dog, that's like in that app and I just check, check, check. That's how I stay consistent. So for my children, I've kind of, you know, created something similar where these are the four subjects or three subjects if they're, you know, large or college level that you're going to do today. Um, when and how you do them is completely up to you, but they will be done, because that's how you're going to get your video games and my kids love video games.
Speaker 1:So it just kind of happens At least. That's a good question too. How do you? Because different ages, different types of structures and different freedoms within that. So for your youngest, you said that's 11, I think Okay, yeah he's 11.
Speaker 2:How's the?
Speaker 1:structure for his schooling different from, let's say, one of your teens? How's can you go into? How, like, because obviously I'm a parent, I have a three-year-old, so that's, I'm a little bit. You know, I'm not there yet, but I'm sure there's listeners here that who might be curious in wanting to get into this. But maybe they have a 11-year and, let's say, a 13 year old or 16 year old. How's that structure different? And how would you? How do you go about that during the day? Like, do you give them cause? I know, yeah, go ahead, sorry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, no, it's.
Speaker 2:you know, it's interesting because I can say, from this time to this time, we're going to do this, or this time to this time, but that's never how it works, because the dog throws up on the carpet or there's like some thing right, because it's not a controlled institutional environment, which means you will have more distractions, and part of learning is figuring out how do we deal with the things as they happen and then get quickly back on track. I tend to. You know, everyone does math every day. That's it Because, as homeschoolers, we fall. I will just say this homeschooled children, while they can score very well on tests and do very well in school overall, tend to not have the highest priority on math, and I don't know if that's our confidence speaking or our kids just hate it, and so we kind of like let it slide. For me it's a little bit of both, but you know, I know that's something we have not always been great with and I'm trying to refine as we go. So math first, that's the first thing we do and everyone does it. I mean you should have math at every age, and so everyone sits and works on their math at the same time, and I've got one on the couch and one on the dining room table and one laying on the floor, and one's got a cat in its lap at his lap at the computer. Um, and everyone's just working on math and I'm usually sitting at the table then going through emails or paying bills or something where I'm working, but I still have my ears to like problems and usually what happens is a kid that just did that same math a year or two before ends up walking by and going hey buddy, you might want to look at that one again. They kind of do very well to mentor each other.
Speaker 2:But even if you don't have that, you know, just knowing math is a thing that's going to take a lot of focus and attention. So maybe I shouldn't be cooking dinner or doing something very focus intense. And that's really just kind of how we do it. Our structure is if it needs a lot of my focus, if it's very intense, if it's a tears situation or a subject where they're just like I need to be there and I need to be present, be present.
Speaker 2:And if it's like reading, where it's like, hey, buddy, take your book that you can't put down because you love it so much into your room and read like I don't need to be there for that. So it's figuring out intent and focus, what else needs to be done in the house and we kind of schedule around that, which I know is not a schedule at all and it makes some people very uncomfortable, but it's realistic about the demands of a family and the demands of life. So three to four subjects setting it up so that everyone's energies are focused in the right place Just kind of go throughout the day with life stuck in there and at the end of the day, if you get all your chores done and you've helped clean up after dinner and your schoolwork's done, you can Minecraft for a couple hours.
Speaker 1:I don't care. So it does sound like there's. There is kind of a structure in terms of we're doing, we're doing math, reading, science, history, and there's a structure throughout the day. Do you allow? Um, I guess my next question would be because this is how I was homeschooled um, we started out with the same similar structure where we wake up, the we, you know, do breakfast, whatever, and then we would immediately start with math, reading um, science, and then we would end with history, except the history is different now, in the same curriculum, which makes no sense.
Speaker 1:But later on, during like teenage years, it got more to a place where it's like mom would say, okay, need you to do this, this, this, this and this is what you need to do? And I would. I would set up my day to where I would do a week's worth of work and so I wouldn't have to do any more the rest of the week. At least that's how it went in my mind. That didn't fly very well with her, so I had to do it on the low and do a little bit of extra and extra. But looking back on that, it's like, okay, I don't know, would I do that? And now would I do that with my three-year-old. I probably would allow him a certain extent of that while at the same time probably giving him something more challenging to do. How does that kind of work with your family? Do you do something similar? Yeah, yeah, do you do something similar, or?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you know it's interesting too, because the beauty of homeschooling is the kids can somewhat go at their own level. You know learning differences, you can work through that dyslexia challenge right and you can get kids really confident with reading. But if you have a kid that you know I have one right now I'm laughing because it took the one child like two years to get through the curriculum, which is fine. It's not set up year by year, it's like subject or mastery based. But this kid's like six months and he's done because he's just, he loves it and he's just flying through it and he thinks it's great. And I'm kind of asking him all right, you finished this in six months.
Speaker 2:We have some options. Do you want to take this time and like learn an instrument? Or like maybe you pick a subject that you learn about, or we find like an online college course that you find is interesting. You can knock out some credits Like what do you want to do?
Speaker 2:I feel like there's a way to be like oh well, we don't want to waste like you. You, you moved ahead in something very quickly, which is cool, because that doesn't always happen and maybe it's going to take you longer to do something else. So it all evens out. But also we don't want to waste that time. So I kind of feel like, if you've earned yourself some extra time, you tell me what you want to learn.
Speaker 2:And I think phrasing it like that and approaching it like that, it's not a punishment then for finishing early. It's more like, oh, we got our vegetables out of the way, like, what kind of dessert, healthy dessert, can we have? And I'm finding they're like oh, I want to learn 3D printing, or I want to take some online CAD classes. Or I have one kid that's like learning Russian. I do not even know if, um, he's actually like picking anything up, but he's taking the classes because he he likes Russian composers and he thought it would be interesting, right, and he can do that, um, and I don't feel like it's wasted time, um, because it could be the you know something that pushes him towards something else that makes sense.
Speaker 1:I can remember, um, the my motivation was I wanted to play a video game, uh, back then, and that was going to be my reward. Because the I've. I learned early on that I'm much motivated. I'm motivated more if I can, if more if I have some reward, that I need to clear this out of the way and then I can go do that thing. Do you use a reward-like system for motivation? How do you do motivation?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I started out like a lot of parents, I think, with like charts and stickers and all that.
Speaker 2:I found out very quickly that's like a full-time job when you have a family and I would like, after a week, be like forget about it, and then half the kids would forget about it, and then the one kid that was really like was like this isn't fair, like you know. So it just it didn't work for us. But I do kind of have this basic after six and I like have this checklist in the living room that's like want to play video games, and then there's like six questions to ask and it's like are all the animals fed? Are the dishes and the laundry picked up in your room? You know, just like some little like end of the day wrap-up things. And then one of the questions is have you asked mom if she needs help with anything? Have you asked dad if he needs help with anything? Now me, I'm gonna be like oh, I don't know, switch over the laundry. Dad might be like help me build this shelf. So the kids are just like I don't know if I want to ask that, but what it does is it reminds them to check in with their parents who probably could use some help. It helps them to think a little bit outside of themselves, and then that's it, and then they can play video games.
Speaker 2:And honestly, if it happens at six or eight or nine yeah, could that mean they're playing video games for three hours. Nine yeah, could that mean they're playing video games for three hours? Potentially, but usually they're playing together again, or with a sibling that's away at college or like that's their social. I know video games for kids today like that's their pure time. That's me laying on the couch with the corded phone wrapped around my finger talking to my friend for three hours. Right, that's what this is. So parents need to remember it's not just this bad technology, it's peer groups. So I'm okay with that, as long as they like hit the other markers, they get to bed on time and we don't see like behavior issues 100% Okay.
Speaker 1:So if someone in the audience wants to, they want to get started with homeschooling, they want to, they want to venture into it. In your opinion, what's the best way of kind of like obviously listening to this has been really helpful, but going back to choosing a curriculum all this because I could imagine it being daunting to some brand new person in terms of structuring the day, and it being kind of overwhelming of oh, I need to make sure this, this, this, this, this, this, it's all done. You know that kind of thing. What would you tell that person in terms of getting like it's not as bad as you think or it's not as hard as you think, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think so, like the biggest danger and the biggest mistake that I see is something you're not even going to know you're making until you do it, and that is trying to make homeschool like regular school, but just at home right.
Speaker 2:So setting up your area to look just like a classroom and putting the posters and the charts, and there's nothing wrong with that, but the beauty of homeschool is it could be so much bigger than that, right, but you're not going to get there until you're kind of on the road. So what I always try to say is, if you're pulling your kid out, have just one subject locked and loaded and ready to go. Start with one, because the odds you're going to pick something or pick a few things and some of them won't work and it might be a little frustrating for you or frustrating for your child is very high. I like to pick math because you don't have a lot of those like moral values Um, for most things, math is math, um, and so, just as now, just choosing the delivery method, whether you want it to be workbooks or online, or how you want to do that, it takes away a lot of the like oh, are they going to teach history from like a Eurocentric perspective or are they?
Speaker 2:You know, there's just like a lot of things to consider with the humanities that aren't going to be in math for the most part. So I tell people to pick a math curriculum, ask parents in their group who again share their values and share their perspective towards do we love memorization? Are we more hands-on? Look at those reviews and get the math going.
Speaker 1:Start with just math for a week or two. What if you don't consider yourself very good at math or history or science or whatever? Because I could see that being daunting very much also.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so as a homeschooler today versus a homeschooler back then, you don't have to be their quote unquote teacher. I consider myself more an administrator or, if I'm honest, a curator of educational experiences. Right, I don't love 18th century Russian literature, even though I do as much as somebody who has like a PhD in it, and I'm not going to pretend like I'm going to stand there and tell my kid anything mind blowing. So I'm going to find a course written or published by someone who cares about that, or a teacher or a tutor or a community group where somebody is the authority in that. That doesn't mean I can't teach things and I think for like under 10, you can handle most everything, maybe up to 12. But I think with the older grades to say, oh, I can't homeschool because I don't know calculus, join the club, I didn't take calculus right.
Speaker 2:But we have dual enrollment, online college courses you can take for credit and you've got, you know, online curriculum providers. You've got Khan Academy that can help like tutor you as you go through. You've got apps now where you can ask perplexity, ai. I have this math problem and I don't I see the answer. I don't know how you got there. Can you break it down and explain to me like I'm a five-year-old and AI will do that for you. So we have these tools, yet don't put all the burden on mom and dad, yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1:So, like we have Masterclass and other great, great tools like that, yeah, so I guess that was going to bring me to my last question, which was if you do utilize tutors, because I know math. For me, um was probably the worst subject in terms of getting it into my head, and we had to. We, we went through so many different curriculums. Nothing would work, and finally there was somebody, a retired rocket scientist, in the community, and she offered to teach me and she explained it in in, like the only person that could explain it to me in a way that my brain would be able to make it work. And um, and that's, that was the result, and that was me. That was, uh, me at 16. So it's, I was very far behind, by the the way, I probably still am, honestly, but there's enough tools out there. We don't need to be as smart as we had to be back then. But, yeah, did you ever eat?
Speaker 2:And isn't that amazing, though I mean think about that If you were in a school system and you had a teacher that's your math teacher, and if they don't explain it the way your brain works?
Speaker 1:oh well.
Speaker 2:If the biggest problem we have is we have to kind of seek out the things that might fit, but at least we can. I don't know if it's an actual problem, so much as it's just like another responsibility.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean 100%, 100, like the. Going back to the legacy homeschool curriculums, um, a lot of them were written, or at least the ones that we were trying were very, uh, one-sided, going back to like like that memorization type thing, very one-sided, and one kind of type of person. And there were a couple, like two of my siblings, loved it and they, they got it and they were able to excel in it. But then the more creative siblings, like myself, couldn't understand it at all. We needed something else to make it work and we found some solutions but, yeah, having to hire a tutor for math, I was the only one who went who had needed that. Um, but yeah, it is amazing how, now we have technology, we have ai.
Speaker 1:Although I am a bit hesitant to allow my kids, I would be to allow my kids to use ai just because I know for myself, because I use it a lot. I know that I'm not. I don't know how it got to that answer and I just have to trust that the answer is what the answer is, whereas when you do a math problem or you're writing a book or you're doing something, you know how you came to that conclusion and you can talk about it and back it up, right, and you're not going to get, you're not. If you, if, yeah, if ai is going to be the dominant thing, well, I feel like society is going to get. Just, they're not going to know how to do anything. They're not going to.
Speaker 2:We're going to be even more reliant on that and I don't want my kids to be that way yeah, and actually one of the things I like about perplexity is like it will link to the source and it's a con academy video so then my kids can go oh, here's the video that explains the concept.
Speaker 2:Right, it directs them. So, yeah, not all a is created equal and I totally agree with you like explainability and figuring out how you came up with it is going to be key, um, but there's a lot of different tools too, and you know, I think kids are going to come up in a place where AI is going to be everywhere so that's another thing I like with the cell phones or the Discord, like teaching them responsible.
Speaker 2:Use of AI is going to probably be something. Is it the alpha? Is that what the little youngest generation?
Speaker 1:I have no idea.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's al alphas. The little baby alphas are gonna be around ai and so, as homeschoolers um, if you're like a parent, that it's like I don't want anything to do with. This part of equipping your little baby alphas for the job or the career of the future is to like how do we responsibly use ai? So just another thing to add to parents. What's the things to think?
Speaker 1:about, especially when it comes to education, and I mean technology in general. We were just thinking about this the other day that you know our three-year-old will not know a world without an iPad or without, like I know how I grew up, grew up, we were outside, we had to use our imagination, we had to do all a bunch of stuff to keep ourselves entertained, whereas now you have video games and you have, you know, shows and they have all this stuff that don't necessarily need imagination for, and that's one of the things I know for a three-year-old in terms of screen time. We've used this app called Puck. It's an educational app and it's incredible because it has blocks and stuff very low in terms of sensitivity and stuff like that, and we play together with that and it's great. But yeah, that's something that is completely going back to the AI thing. I think parents need to be aware, or at least more aware, about what technology is actually doing to your child's brain and the development of it.
Speaker 2:it because you don't want them to be in, you don't want them to be able to not know how to navigate the world with necessarily without the ipad to answer all the questions I agree, and you know it's like we get hung up on things like I don't know calculus so I can't teach my student, when really technology and some of these things are going to be larger. You know sociological challenges and yet we have parents that will not try and the thing is the best way to understand.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the best way to understand what a technology does and how it works and how it might create problems for your child is to like get on it and try it, and you know, it's been eye opening for me to like see what maybe the things on social media are saying these apps are doing and really what they're doing. Some of the dangers are widely over exaggerated, and then some of the things that might be a challenge aren't being addressed at all, and so I think that you know you have to if you're going to be homeschooling and you're the source of information. Get out me as a kid. Um, I couldn't, when facebook had just come out that I wasn't allowed to sign up for facebook.
Speaker 1:Well, I went around, I went around them and signed up anyway and I had a face.
Speaker 1:I had a facebook account for two years and they didn't know, and then they finally was like you can do, you can have a facebook account, like, okay, I already have them.
Speaker 1:Um, whereas if it had been more of a well, another thing, too, I think, is the reason why I think that's very important as a parent, to say why, um, if I, if they had been like, okay, we don't want you having a facebook account because, um, it could really harm you and hurt you and you could be taken advantage of as a 13-year-old or 12-year-old, as a 13-year-old, and this is the kind of stuff that happens on these kind of sites.
Speaker 1:If they had explained that to me, I probably wouldn't have gone behind their backs, and I think that's something that, as parents, we have to, because we're moving, we're moving throughout the day, we're going, we have a ton of stuff on our minds all the time and sometimes just saying, no, you're not, I don't want you doing that, or no, you can't do that, or stop that or whatever, but without taking the time of giving explanations, I feel like, in a lot of ways, you're missing an opportunity to teach them something and for them to grow, and they're going to wonder why, and I think oh yeah, and you know, the biggest mantra of homeschoolers is to what, prioritize and value curiosity, right?
Speaker 2:So if we really want to plug into what makes children so amazing is that their need to know things and learn things and be curious, and we want to encourage that in homeschooling and we want to encourage them to try all these things, but yet now we're not willing to like give them the explanation. That's kind of anti what we say when we talk about these other uses of learning and curiosity. So being consistent is important. Um, so for kids to even respect what you have to say, I think well, lindsay, thank you so much for joining us on the uh podcast.
Speaker 1:This has been great. Um, what are some resources or a website or something that people could get in touch with you if they have any other questions or anything like that. How can we reach you?
Speaker 2:yeah, so I'm on most social um as l, my first initial neural k-n-e-r-l, and I have a website, lindsey neuralcom, and you can reach out to me there and then um for anyone that's just like. I want to start homeschooling Monday. What do I need to do? My book, homeschool Hacks how to Give your Kid a Great Education Without Losing your Job or your Mind is full of tips and I've interviewed families that work from home or in the military all different situations so maybe you could get some ideas from parents who've made it work and see if you can't incorporate some of those into your own life.
Speaker 1:Thank you, Lindsay, so much. I hope you have a great rest of your day and week. Thank you.
